i'd like to buy this strop, but i have some doubt about the linen component...(i have read the post of gary) do you have tested it in long term?

thanks

Hi,

The linen is stiff with a coarse weave. Many tend not to use it, preferring other linens, myself included. But, I want to do some testing (of a possibly destructive nature ) on mine... If you were to buy a Kanayama (excellent strops in any case) and didn't like the linen, I would be willing to trade you the linen for a supple, hand finished linen component.

regards,
Torolf

I guess I have tested mine in the long term, in that it is the only linen I have used for nearly 2 years. It works fine. It is, in fact, a really good linen. More people have complimented the linen than have said anything negative about it.

I think the reason some people seem hesitant to use it is because it is different, and it makes them nervous. Trust me, the stiffness of the linen is not an accident, and it will never, ever hurt your razor (if used properly). If used properly, I honestly believe the linen will help preserve your edges.

JimR:

I guess I have tested mine in the long term, in that it is the only linen I have used for nearly 2 years. It works fine. It is, in fact, a really good linen. More people have complimented the linen than have said anything negative about it.

Hmm. Jim, with all due respect, and without any of what I'm about to write must be taken personal, there is a certain kind of no-nonsensical atmosphere on The Cafeteria, that I am going to honor in this post.
Most guys I know that have used the Kananyama strop are all fairly experienced. I think that is only normal: a starting shaver will not easily spend that kind of money for a strop that he's likely to mar with his still underdeveloped stropping skils.
Those seasoned fellows have all more or less made the same statement: high praise for the leather componenet(s) and the craftsmanship, and a special recommendation for the great services of the seller (that would be you, my friend).
But at the same time, all of these fellows that I know off have been far less enthusiastic about the linen, and I don't think that is because they were "nervous" about it, as you suggested, nor do I believe these gents were prepared to give up on that linen so easily. After all, we're talking about the strop that has the reputation to be the best in the world.
Personally, I have seen and briefly used Gary's Kanayama strop, an even with such a limited trial, I could tell that the linen differs a lot form those found on other high-end strops. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it just has a different function. Or it has to be used completely different that the typical Western linen component. Either way:

JimR:

If used properly, I honestly believe the linen will help preserve your edges.

is far to vague, coming from the seller of the strops and the guy who has direct access to the maker.
I think a lot of people need information on what the "word" properly means in the quoted sentence above.

We have Chris sanding his, Torolf wanting to do tests of possible destructive nature, and Gary being, as always, kindly stating that he doesn't really figure his one out. That tells me there is something not quite right with the linen component of the Kanayama strop, or something lacking in the instructions for use.

Let's stop beating around that bush, shall we?

Kind regards,
Bart.

I have the trio model. the leather is my all time favourite. The linen is not frightening for me to use, but realy it does feel nor sound good . it just does'nt rock my boat. my honing is done on coticule as you no.i need a fabrice that will bring the edge up after coticule. I have compared k linen tm linen and dovo, both dovo and tm linen i saw massive hht results. K linen non at all. I tested by shaving of k linen> i tested of tm linen there was a big differance the shave was easily better for me of tm,dovo linen. i am going to test this again. i actauly spoke to raspur who sell these strops . he say linen does nothing and he has taken it of his strop and uses leather only.

This my exeriance. I still intend to use the k linen at some point as i need to give a real go.

gary

mhnnnnnnnnnn...the linen/canvas is so fundamental??.....i ve tested some shave with and without (livi loom strop) with good stropping techinque and about 80 laps on a good leather, and final 20 on palm of my hand, the shave is a really heavenly....i have HHT4-5 with ONLY this leather......i generally arrive after the coticule with hht 3-4

why for the japanese is not fundamental if it is increase the sharpness ?

but i trust you, bart and gary.....i'll make some new test...

I love my Kanayama leather. Even though I only have the ... (can't remember the number), but it was the cheapest of the lot. It was still up there in price with the other well known, highly reputable strops. I was never happy with my TM leather, though the linen component is the most effective of the few I've tried.

Torolf's made some excellent points about the psychology of stropping that really rang true with me, but that aside, the round of testing I did with mine side by side with my TM linen showed that it wasn't as effective in raising the HHt results.
The leather alone is worth the price of admission, and i have a feeling that the three part strop may be more effective than the two part system. I've found that the leather alone isn't enough to raise the HHT from that left by the linen without an intermediate step, which is probably where the suede type leather comes in.

Eventually, I plan to piece together a strop system that incorporates the best of what I have. It will include my Kanayama Leather, probably Torolf's linen/hemp component (pending testing), and my Bear-hide strop.
Gone will be the K linen, the TM leather and the vintage shell and linen. And the CrOx treated paddle.

TM280:

Hi,

The linen is stiff with a coarse weave. Many tend not to use it, preferring other linens, myself included. But, I want to do some testing (of a possibly destructive nature ) on mine... If you were to buy a Kanayama (excellent strops in any case) and didn't like the linen, I would be willing to trade you the linen for a supple, hand finished linen component.

regards,
Torolf

Hi Torolf,

I'm interested about your linen component. I will send you a PM.

Regards,
Urmas

Exactly, Bart: Gary, Chris and Torolf. Three people. I've seen maybe three comments on SRP. So six. If other people aren't saying anything, then it must not be too bad, so I'm going to stick to that number.

I've had more than three times that number buy the linen alone, and they had nothing but praise.

I've had a few others who have been straight shaving for more than a decade telling me it's the best linen they've used.

When there are more people complimenting something than complaining, and when the people complaining have never said anything more than "I don't like it." then I have to believe it's a matter of taste, rather than of quality. No beating around the bush. Just what I see to be true. So Torolf's definition of "many" is three...mine is a bit higher.

As for "proper use", that's what is known as "covering my ass." What I mean is just this: using it like a strop should be used. 20 or so laps with little or no pressure (if you use pressure, make sure it's in the spine not toward the edge). I'm not trying to be sneaky, Bart. Just saying, if you strop at a 45 degree angle your edge is not going to be preserved. Trust me, I've heard this before...

I don't dislike my Kanayama linen (and am one of those people who bought just the linen, although I mainly did so because it was the easiest way at the time to get a 2.5" wide linen and strop hanger). That said, I like my TM linen slightly more, but I definitely don't see any adverse effects using the Kanayama linen. It's mainly that I like the feel of the TM linen more since using it doesn't make it sound like I'm doing poi in the closet.

Edit: I should note that the only cloth strops I've used are TM linen, TM cotton and Kanayama linen.

Well, I find my Kanayama linen to be most like the vintage linens I've seen. It got the weight and body of those old ones that is lacking in the newer products. Not to say I dislike it, but the vibrations it sent out I could feel in my teeth. For me the points Torolf brought up in regards to the psychological aspect of stropping probably are one of the biggest factors. Much the same held true for the nylon component of the Vintage Blades strop I gave away... it comes down to the tactile sensations, and the perceptions of the user. Though I do stand by the test results I had that showed an apparent drop in HHT results.

If anyone is interested I'd be willing to loan my linen component out for testing by one of our brethren here more experienced than I. No way will I permanently part with it though.

Chris, I use Kanayama linen every day. I have for a long time, and never have I once felt anything like the vibrations you describe. Can I ask you, when you strop, how much pressure are you using? Is the strop straight or does it deform/bend when you strop?

Hi Jim,
I had to go grab a razor and do a few test passes... trying to replicate by feel the same pressure as is typical for me, it reads in the 10 to15 g range on my cheap kitchen scale. ( Just a micky mouse kinda test but it's hard to convey that type of thing else ways). I pull the strop quite tight ( as a bald-ass guess, i'd say in the range of applying about 10 + lbs of pull,) and the strop deflects considerably less than a centimeter with a pass (eye-balled).


back and forth from the computer to the strop

I've tried all kinds of pressure just now, hard and loose, hard with a hard pull, light and loose, light with a hard pull, hard pull and typical pressure (trust me, I'm not above re-examining my stropping technique) and I get a very zippy type of noise and a definate vibration I can feel in the bones of my left hand and in my back teeth. It's more pronounced in one direction over the other. As a side note, I tried turning around and holding the strop so i was approaching it from the opposite end, and it seems obvious that particular phenomenon is just a function of the weave. (and not really a concern to me in any way)

There is also a huge difference in the vibrations created in direct correlation to the grind of the razor. My giant meat-chopper is dead silent, with almost no noise or vibration, and my most hollow razor, a Dovo Blackstar, is so loud it can be heard in the living room, and generates the most uncomfortable vibrations.

It does feel remarkably similar to the vintage linen I have, the difference in my mind being simply that the K hasn't had the use the vintage linen has had, so the sensation and sound from the vintage is much more muted. It makes me think that the issue i have with my Kanayama are a function of my own ... what's the word? not prejudices , but early experience with the V Blades and TM have predisposed me a certain way. I guess I keep repeating that similarity, because that seems like a very important point to me, and I'm fascinated by the pontetial of that... It's what makes me contemplate the old idea of sanding and treatments. A lot of old strops are treated with all kinds of gunk; waxes, soaps, pastes, sandings, and none of those seem suitable with the single light layers of linen like the TM. Those other types of strops like the Kanayama, and i hope Torolf's strops that are due to arrive shortly, are meaty, with lots of material to work with, a good medium to work with, so to speak.

Sorry Jim... probably much more answer than you were expecting.... I have a very boring job... so I think about this shit all day long.... It good to get it out!

Kind regards,
-Chris

mhnnnnnnn i m studying philosophy at university, but here, we need to a real EMPIRICAL DATA. the problem i think is fairly easy.

take the razor pass it on the linen and..........the kanayama linen improve the hht?
after that strop and shave and...........what abouth smoothness?? the coarse weave of the linen dullen the edge??

perfect, personally, i don't use the linen because don't have on the livi loom strop, (for test i use the back side non pasted )

i pass the razor for 80 laps on the loom leather strop (loose setting is the best for the smoothness) and the shave is superb..generally hht4/5 always.

but i m interested to this new component of the strop....but personally i don't think as a "miracolous" solution....because the final target is the SHAVE and this is awesome and smooth without the linen!

I use Kanayama strops more than a year now. In first I have Kanayama #30000 and now I have #80000 which have additional thick leather side (it is used as an intermediate between linen and fine leather side).
For Kanayama linen I can say that is little bit different from other strop linen sides (for example Dovo and Illinois). There is much more noise from Kanayama linen and stroping feel is different but I do not have issues of dulling edge by stroping on Kanayama linen. In my oppinion Kanayama linen needs some time to break in (in the begining it is little bit stiff but with use it becomes softer and gives real pleasure in use).