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chti_lolo
Posts: 376
it seems also that there is a small torsion of the blade, bad luck


Laurent
2011-09-14 21:18
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
A lot of new Dovos have this problem. Don't count on a replacement. The razor has hone wear now, and because they can't resell it to another person, they will not accept it back. Robin is right that you have to talk to the store owner, not the manufacturer. The former may offer a replacement, but -unless he's has a large turnover- it is unlikely that he will receive a replacement form Dovo.

I am starting to suspect that they do some kind of triage at Dovo, and throw the blades that came out warped in the Dovo "Best" bin. (Dovo "Best" is their entry level model). Personally, I don't mind. A warped blade can shave as well as a straight blade, as long as the warp remains within reason, of course. But it is true that Dovo has been notorious for warped blades, more so than other manufacturers.

If it is indecent to say something like that about a German company, maybe someone ought to revoke the owners' German citizenship? :D

They really could do better QC.

Kind regards,
Bart
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2011-09-15 00:16
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Emmanuel Giannoulakis (Emmanuel)
Advisor
From: Greece
Posts: 942
I can't say watching the pictures if it as a problem of the longitudinal axis straightness or a missgrindig work.But i am sure that this razor is able for honing and shaving.Whether I was in your place I would try to return it.The problem is that large time elapsed.
Best regards
Emmanuel
Emmanuel Giannoulakis
from Athens Greece
2011-09-15 00:29
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Robin
Posts:
Bart,

You seem to have seen quite a few bad ones. You know that a certain shop we both know sells them, and they've not seen many bad ones. Which does not mean that I, too, would expect not a single one with problems like these to slip their attention. Then again, we both have seen worse from a custom maker who's probably spent several hours with just that one blade, so...

Any road, it doesn't say "warranty void if honed", I'm sure, so I would absolutely send it back to the retailer. Maintaining that razor will either cost extra money (if honed professionally) or time, and that's simply not acceptable. And again, the contract is between seller and buyer, not manufacturer and buyer. Or would you ship your Lexus back to Japan every time it had a problem? No? Go figure...

Oh, and if that razor was bought in the EU, it has a two year warranty, no caveat emptor or any such nonsense.

Regards,
Robin
2011-09-15 00:33
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Paul
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 1388
In the US, it's not uncommon at all for product issues to be dealt with between buyer and manufacturer.
Paul
"Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it" - Greg Anderson
my blog- and it works again :p
2011-09-15 00:54
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
I have not used the word "bad", Robin. Wim can leave that razor at my place, and I would hone it just like so many other Dovos I have honed. True, this one compares to the more pronounced warps I've handled, but apart from making a remark about the warp in my correspondence with the owners of such blades (and a couple recommendations for future honing and maintenance), I have never made a public issue out of warp. The most warped blade I've ever honed was a "Colibri", a French brand, but with "forgé et evidé à Solingen" stamped in the tang. It happened to be one of those exceptionally smooth shavers.
Thiers Issard all come with a smiling edge. If you've read my post about warp and how it relates to smiling edges, you know the possible reason for that.

I just think that a manufacturer should have the guts to stand up and tell the audience what his production tolerances are.
What Wim showed us is an entry level straight razor. It won't win a beauty contest, certainly not when it will be honed properly. But it can shave as well as any high end Dovo that costs 2 or 3 times more. I have never seen a Bergischer Löwe with a warp. Nor a warped Bismarck.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2011-09-15 00:59
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Jim
Posts: 20
iconBart:
I have never seen a . . . warped Bismarck.
Bart.


Robert Ballard has! You just weren't looking in the right place :P
One punctuation mark is sufficient to end a sentence.
2011-09-15 02:45
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gary haywood (garyhaywood)
Advisor
From: United Kingdom
Posts: 1678
iconBart:
I have not used the word "bad", Robin. Wim can leave that razor at my place, and I would hone it just like so many other Dovos I have honed. True, this one compares to the more pronounced warps I've handled, but apart from making a remark about the warp in my correspondence with the owners of such blades (and a couple recommendations for future honing and maintenance), I have never made a public issue out of warp. The most warped blade I've ever honed was a "Colibri", a French brand, but with "forgé et evidé à Solingen" stamped in the tang. It happened to be one of those exceptionally smooth shavers.
Thiers Issard all come with a smiling edge. If you've read my post about warp and how it relates to smiling edges, you know the possible reason for that.

I just think that a manufacturer should have the guts to stand up and tell the audience what his production tolerances are.
What Wim showed us is an entry level straight razor. It won't win a beauty contest, certainly not when it will be honed properly. But it can shave as well as any high end Dovo that costs 2 or 3 times more. I have never seen a Bergischer Löwe with a warp. Nor a warped Bismarck.

Kind regards,
Bart.


i was just going to mention i have a brandnew bergischer, and the bevel is mint, the shave is one of the nicest i've had from a dovo, yet i have had had 8 dovo specials , one dovo best , they all had slightly inperfect bevels. , even my prima klang is a little of, yet my best class dovo is perfect.
i think you may have apoint about the b ucket for the not so perfect ones, that turn into cheaper dovo's.

i also found my dovo special took some stroke ajusting to hit the bevel in certain spots, with light pressure in finishing it seemed to be not getting down so well on the hone, thats why i just finished on the some crox, as that made perfect contact
.
gary haywood
2011-09-15 08:32
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Wim Decraene (decraew)
Insider +1
From: Belgium
Posts: 447
iconBart:
The razor has hone wear now, and because they can't resell it to another person, they will not accept it back.


Bart, for me that's not a valid argument since this problem only really surfaces at the moment that the razor is honed for the first time, so you will automatically have hone wear. You can't expect your average user to see an issue that's barely visible.
2011-09-15 09:47
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Deckard
Posts: 156
I got a few warped blades, usually an heat treat effect.
The bevel on the other side of edge should be the reverse - thick toe and heal.
As long as a bevel can be established along whole length its not a problem, otherwise a narrow hone may be required to achieve this.
2011-09-15 19:21
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
icondecraew:
iconBart:
The razor has hone wear now, and because they can't resell it to another person, they will not accept it back.


Bart, for me that's not a valid argument since this problem only really surfaces at the moment that the razor is honed for the first time, so you will automatically have hone wear. You can't expect your average user to see an issue that's barely visible.


It is not a valid argument from where you stand, I know that. But they might still use it.
Please consider this from a different viewpoint. Imagine you were making razors. A certain amount of your production has warp. You put them with your lowest grade blades, finish them with your standard etching, standard scales, and sell at a basic price. You consider an amount of warp to be acceptable within certain tolerances. After all, these blades can be honed and made to shave well, certainly when pastes are used, and that is what you recommend for sharpening anyway.
So far, so good. Sometimes, a new blade is returned through a reseller, by a customer who considers the warp "too much". You check the blades, and if it fits your tolerances, you get your hone-mistress put a decent edge on it and repackage it as a new blade. Problem solved.

Now, what would you do if someone returned a blade that you consider to be within tolerances, but he has put a lot of hone wear on it, because he belongs to a school that insists to hone blades with stones and no pastes? The resale value of the razor is zero for you by now, because no one will accept is as a new razor. Chances are that you will say: "the guy didn't know what he was doing, he has put unnecessary hone wear on the blade and now he wants a replacement. No can do."

This is of course only speculation of my behalf, I don't know Dovo, and I don't know how they approach these issues. I do know that my speculation is nothing extraordinary. And I don't doubt that this razor could be made to shave well. Hence, in my speculation, you'd have a point. This razor has been sold to shave, and that it can do, quite well probably.

Best regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2011-09-16 02:44
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king
From: Croatia/Hrvatska
Posts: 229
iconBart:

Please consider this from a different viewpoint. Imagine you were making razors. A certain amount of your production has warp. You put them with your lowest grade blades, finish them with your standard etching, standard scales, and sell at a basic price. You consider an amount of warp to be acceptable within certain tolerances. After all, these blades can be honed and made to shave well, certainly when pastes are used, and that is what you recommend for sharpening anyway.
Best regards,
Bart.


+ there should be notice that blade is slightly or in acceptable telerances warped. In that case buyer is 100% aware of the "issue" so he can decide to buy it or not.
2011-09-16 07:43
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Smythe
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 990
iconking:
iconBart:

Please consider this from a different viewpoint. Imagine you were making razors. A certain amount of your production has warp. You put them with your lowest grade blades, finish them with your standard etching, standard scales, and sell at a basic price. You consider an amount of warp to be acceptable within certain tolerances. After all, these blades can be honed and made to shave well, certainly when pastes are used, and that is what you recommend for sharpening anyway.
Best regards,
Bart.


+ there should be notice that blade is slightly or in acceptable telerances warped. In that case buyer is 100% aware of the "issue" so he can decide to buy it or not.

A warped blade is not considered a "flaw", and in any case, If it can be kept shave worthy as per the manufacturers recommendation (pasted strop) that's all that matters.
It's not a "collectors item" or "precision instrument" so there would be no need to complicate the process with a "notice" of acceptable tolerance.
2011-09-16 08:15
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king
From: Croatia/Hrvatska
Posts: 229
If the manufacturer is aware of the "warped blade" or any other issue, me as a customer, expect to be noticed about those issues. From my point of view warped blade as one in this thread is a flaw and not something that have to be accepted as a normal thing. But that's just me.
2011-09-16 13:14
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
Well, the world does not always adhere to how we think reality should be.
Perfect straightness only exists in mathematics. In real life, any straight razor deviates from mathematical straightness. Check your razors and tell me how many of them have truly equally balanced bevel symmetry.
So when is warp to be considered "too much warp?" You can think that decision is yours. In that case, you'll have to buy at a seller with a "no questions asked" policy for offering replacements. They might exist, but I suspect even they will expect you to ask replacement before you started altering the factory bevel. It's not that difficult to estimate how much a blade deviates from perfect straightness, immediately upon its arrival.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2011-09-16 22:46