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vgeorge
+1
Posts: 273

Pretty interesting, I thought ...



[video]vTV4ph1LE3c[/video]
George
------
Proud owner of Franz Kline Coticule from Ardennes via Bart
Hoping for Edge, Working on Bevel. © 2010
2011-11-12 01:10
Avatar
danjared
Moderator
From: United States
Posts: 1000
:D :D :D

[video]QLaJkNEZsTw[/video]
2011-11-12 03:13
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danjared
Moderator
From: United States
Posts: 1000
Okay, he may get good results with his sharpening method, but, sharpening or shaving technique, his shaves look rather uncomfortable. Check out all those weepers:

[video]aY-9GXrOMxc[/video]
2011-11-12 03:17
Avatar
Smythe
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 990
Well it appears he sharpens a bit different (I will be the first to admit doing things a bit different). He goes back-and-forth and raises a burr (or wire) so now he knows the bevels meet at the very edge… he then pass the edge through material to destabilizes the burr (like the TNT)… so far so good…

At this point I was expecting to see him go against the edge for a few laps on the finishing stone, but to my surprise… he strops?... on the same stone… dry… and strops again with newsprint on top of said stone.

After getting over the emotional “knee-jerk” reaction to the video and thinking about it for a few minutes… I think within reason, the technique is sound.

You see… he knocks off the burr (wire) then proceeds to sharpen again (stropping on the stone) to smooth the rough edge and cautions “not over-do it” (I guess if over done would create another burr). Though this smoothing of the edge can be done much easier and is less error prone if he went against the edge, I believe it achieves the same result.

It may not be the kind of perfection we expect… and he does admit some folks may find that edge somewhat harsh, and so he also suggests stropping on pasted leather… the fast cutting CrO2 will tame the edge somewhat.

Though I never strop mid shave (unless there's something wrong with the razor) I absolutely love his honest and utilitarian way of shaving… no brush, just the fingers… no primping or long introduction to some fancy “hi-brand” razor or exotic soap… he straight-up gets the job done… and even admits the shave could be better… and I tell you what… you would be hard pressed to find anyone publicly admit to weepers.

Good show! Thanks for sharing my friend:thumbup:

P.S I have no comment on the second video... did someone say small penises in a pissing contest?
2011-11-12 06:54
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tim stevenson (pedalpowersailing)
From: United Kingdom
Posts: 81
well never being one to knock til I have tried. will give a go and see what happens
to be fair the method is not disimilar to using the norton method

Looks more "earthy" cos its outside

still variety is the spice of life
tim stevenson
2011-11-12 10:43
Avatar
justalex
Posts: 80
Hmmm... I wouldn't use the technique myself and every video I've found of him either shaving himself or someone else has ended up in weepers and blood. I don't have his experience but I've been shaving for 18 months now and for the last nine months, I haven't haven't had one single weeper, not even a little tiny one.

I agree it sharpens an edge, but it doesn't look anywhere near comfortable, and gives a wrong impression of str8 shaving and the 'cutthroat' name given to str8 razors for beginners. I'm sure it works fine, but has he tried any, 'orthodox' traditional techniques, that are used elsewhere? maybe he should try them first and see if he likes the shaves off them.
2011-11-12 10:52
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 4843
icondanjared:
:D :D :D

[video]QLaJkNEZsTw[/video]


:D :D :D
I can only imagine what preceded to Mr! Carter's invitation.:D


Many regular readers of straight razor forums (and the very gear oriented atmosphere you'll find on lost of them) fail to realize that a straight razor that shaves arm hair, will also shave a beard, and that 1200 grit is not as coarse a stone as generally thought. I have shaved off 1200 grit sharpness, and it is not half as bad as generally expected by most people that use 12 thousand grit to finish. Certainly not when you smoothen out that sharpness a bit with whatever means you have.
It is fair to say that progressive honing of razors up to very high grits, uses 95% of the effort you put in it, to achieve the last 5% of comfort improvement. With Coticule -one-stone-only honing, this is different, because the comfort zone is there all along, and the challenging part is getting it keen enough.
In the video, we see a simple and effective way to make a tool shave, mostly derived from techniques normally used to sharpen knives and other tools. I have no doubt that it works, and it puts all the talk of edge finishing on shaving forums in an interesting perspective. Something like saying to an audiophile that one can also listen to music without the use of oxygen-free copper wire.
Shaving can also be kept simple, and it doesn't has to be less fun.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2011-11-12 12:48
Avatar
vgeorge
+1
Posts: 273

Responses to the first video, now just 6 days old, have been fast and furious at YouTube:




Another video challenge here:


[video]AGusizpHjv8[/video]
George
------
Proud owner of Franz Kline Coticule from Ardennes via Bart
Hoping for Edge, Working on Bevel. © 2010
2011-11-12 13:27
Avatar
danjared
Moderator
From: United States
Posts: 1000
iconSmythe:
Well it appears he sharpens a bit different (I will be the first to admit doing things a bit different). He goes back-and-forth and raises a burr (or wire) so now he knows the bevels meet at the very edge… he then pass the edge through material to destabilizes the burr (like the TNT)… so far so good…

At this point I was expecting to see him go against the edge for a few laps on the finishing stone, but to my surprise… he strops?... on the same stone… dry… and strops again with newsprint on top of said stone.

After getting over the emotional “knee-jerk” reaction to the video and thinking about it for a few minutes… I think within reason, the technique is sound.

You see… he knocks off the burr (wire) then proceeds to sharpen again (stropping on the stone) to smooth the rough edge and cautions “not over-do it” (I guess if over done would create another burr). Though this smoothing of the edge can be done much easier and is less error prone if he went against the edge, I believe it achieves the same result.

It may not be the kind of perfection we expect… and he does admit some folks may find that edge somewhat harsh, and so he also suggests stropping on pasted leather… the fast cutting CrO2 will tame the edge somewhat.

Though I never strop mid shave (unless there's something wrong with the razor) I absolutely love his honest and utilitarian way of shaving… no brush, just the fingers… no primping or long introduction to some fancy “hi-brand” razor or exotic soap… he straight-up gets the job done… and even admits the shave could be better… and I tell you what… you would be hard pressed to find anyone publicly admit to weepers.

Good show! Thanks for sharing my friend:thumbup:


It's true. I don't really doubt that his method works pretty well. Actually, I even have a two of his knives (though the lowly "seconds" variety), and they both passed the HHT when they arrived (didn't try shaving with them, though...).

I just figure that, after shaving with a straight razor for two decades, he would've figured out or cared to find a way not to get so many weepers when shaving. Or, maybe he does an abbreviated preparation for his videos, and he doesn't get all those weepers when he normally shaves.
2011-11-12 15:42
Avatar
danjared
Moderator
From: United States
Posts: 1000
iconBart:

:D :D :D
I can only imagine what preceded to Mr! Carter's invitation.:D


Many regular readers of straight razor forums (and the very gear oriented atmosphere you'll find on lost of them) fail to realize that a straight razor that shaves arm hair, will also shave a beard, and that 1200 grit is not as coarse a stone as generally thought. I have shaved off 1200 grit sharpness, and it is not half as bad as generally expected by most people that use 12 thousand grit to finish. Certainly not when you smoothen out that sharpness a bit with whatever means you have.
It is fair to say that progressive honing of razors up to very high grits, uses 95% of the effort you put in it, to achieve the last 5% of comfort improvement. With Coticule -one-stone-only honing, this is different, because the comfort zone is there all along, and the challenging part is getting it keen enough.
In the video, we see a simple and effective way to make a tool shave, mostly derived from techniques normally used to sharpen knives and other tools. I have no doubt that it works, and it puts all the talk of edge finishing on shaving forums in an interesting perspective. Something like saying to an audiophile that one can also listen to music without the use of oxygen-free copper wire.
Shaving can also be kept simple, and it doesn't has to be less fun.

Kind regards,
Bart.


Bart, I had you in mind before I even played that video!
2011-11-12 15:44
Avatar
Paul
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 1388
Varghese, my friend, I need help with the technical name of the component of the washing machine that rotates and stirs things up... Um... What's the term? Oh yes, it's an "agitator":w00t: :lol:
Paul
"Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it" - Greg Anderson
my blog- and it works again :p
2011-11-12 17:57
Avatar
vgeorge
+1
Posts: 273
iconPaul:
Varghese, my friend, I need help with the technical name of the component of the washing machine that rotates and stirs things up... Um... What's the term? Oh yes, it's an "agitator":w00t: :lol:



:O I know I can depend on my friend Paul to see behind the smoke and mirrors and the videos.

But surely, sometimes we do take ourselves too seriously, and should come down a notch or two, don't cha agree?

Although my intuition is much less from real experience and practice than Bart, Cedric, you and others, I do think Carter seems capable of bringing a razor to shave-ready condition with his technique.

:rolleyes: :D :lol:
George
------
Proud owner of Franz Kline Coticule from Ardennes via Bart
Hoping for Edge, Working on Bevel. © 2010
2011-11-12 20:12
Avatar
Bayamontate
Posts: 20
I've read both sides of this issue and think that in fact, there is no issue. While this stuff is all subjective there are certain ways traditionally to hone and strop, whether you agree or disagree with them this is the way they are done. Mr. Carter's honing technique sort works for him, he does admit not getting the best results, but given the techniques, stones ad razors we use I think there is no need to reinvent the wheel here. If you want to try it, why not, it is something different.

The point I'm trying to make is, Kamisori are designed, intended and traditionally used always Ura (stamped side) up, this is simply the way it is. Many use both sides, shaving Omote up, is this wrong? While this may go contrary to design and intend, it is your Kamisori, shave with it as you wish. I guess what I want to say is, to each his own, whether you agree with it or not.
2011-11-12 21:30
Avatar
Paul
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 1388
Yes, Varghese, I do agree very much, actually. I'm actually quite surprised at the reaction of some to this. He gets a razor to shave him. I don't know what the issue is to be honest... Judging by his videos, I'd assume he's not as obsessive about the quality of his edge as others (ganned goo, lots of weepers, and grimaces), but that's not to say that he's not capable of getting edges very similar to ours if not as good if he felt compelled... The video made me very curious to try one of his edges, but I will not be paying a man to hone my razors :)
Paul
"Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it" - Greg Anderson
my blog- and it works again :p
2011-11-12 22:23
Avatar
vgeorge
+1
Posts: 273
Here is a telling comment (after the video of Carter inviting GSSixGun):

iconQuote:
... A ballet dancer makes dance look easy with never a comment on the bruises, strains, aches and 1000's of hours of practice. Murray makes this look easy with no comment on the feel of the steel to the stone, the variance in pressure that, by now, he applies almost subconsciously and a dozen other variables. One can take this technique and learn forever about the intimacy of steel and stone. Never-ending challenge and fun! No worries.


I think the operative phrase is "a dozen other variables." As we seek to control them, we (some of us) run the risk of getting into little personal pigeon-holes. It is great to see conventions being challenged. I am told at straightrazorplace.com, which I don't follow much and have not verified, there has been a vigorous push back to Carter's video.
George
------
Proud owner of Franz Kline Coticule from Ardennes via Bart
Hoping for Edge, Working on Bevel. © 2010
2011-11-12 23:43