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justalex
Posts: 80
Hey there, just got a Cyril R Salter from my pal to hone and I'm having a bit of bother with it even though it should be pretty simple as its a super straight edge but the spine has a very slight smile on it here's a pic;








it has a super pointy toe and I don't know whether to hone it with a slight smile or not to minimise the toe point... I don't know if you can tell by the last pic, the spine slopes very slightly upwards as it goes towards the toe.

here's a couple pics showing the spine it lays flat with a lifted toe on one side and on the other side only the toe and heel touch.





Is there any way I could hone this evenly? I've tried dead flat x strokes, rolling x strokes and circles but none of them caught the whole edge, I'm going to have to leave honing it until tomorrow as I've run out of time today and I'll try the magic marker test then and see if I can get a stroke to fit.

kind regards Alex
[Last edited by justalex, 2011-09-26 13:32]
2011-09-26 09:59
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Smythe
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 990
Hi Alex, You may want to give this thread a thorough read-through as you have the same issue...
http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/2078.html
Please let us know if it helps... or not.
2011-09-26 16:00
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justalex
Posts: 80
Wow, I didn't realise it was such a problem! my 18 razor collection are purely ebayzors so this is the first time I've tried to hone a modern straight razor - I would've thought it was the other way round with vintage razors having warps and defects (just don't make them like they used to)

I also read through the SRP link you linked to and the advice given in that thread, all very useful and bookmarked, First thoughts I'm going to try a 45 degree angle on my coti and see if the magic marker test passes with a slight rolling stroke to catch the tip on one side.

Thanks Smythe, I'm amazed that everytime I think I have something sussed, it comes back and hits me in the chops

regards Alex
2011-09-26 17:06
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Smythe
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 990
Indeed there are warps in new razors and vintage… perhaps 50/50… I have a few expensive whoppers in my collection with minor to severe warps. But I am convinced warps cannot be totally avoided in a manufacturing environment.

In the factory, several forged blades are lined up side-by-side in rows and heated to redness, then plunged in oil or water where they quickly cool to harden. Unfortunately it is at this stage of rapid cooling the steel is most likely to warp, the blades at the far ends of the row are cooled more quickly at one side then the other (there is still a very hot razor next to it so that side cools slower)… when metal cools it contracts, and when one side cools more quickly than the other, the steel will bend.

You would think as the other side finally becomes cool, it would also contract by the same proportion and the blade will straighten, but this is not the case. When metal is hot is also relatively soft and can easily change shape while contracting, by the time the other side fully cools and contracts, the new shape is already “locked”.

Perhaps if the blades were individually hardened (or fewer at a time) warping could be avoided, but this is not economically practical in a manufacturing environment where time, labor and fuel is at a premium.

A warp is not such a bad thing, it only affects sharpening, subsequent maintenance and perhaps cosmetics. But to avoid frustration, it’s best to know what you are up against before you start sharpening.

There are many ways to deal with it, but if you sharpen on a narrow hone or work the surface near the long edge of a wide hone (the hone’s edge closest to the tang), this will allow the bevels to “ride” the surface near the edge of the hone.

One tip: During each alternate stroke, you may roll the “crest” side of the warp, and then drop the tang at the “trough” side of the warp (you should also bear thin in mind when doing back and forth strokes).

Another tip: It is also a good idea to round the edge of the hone a bit more than usual, in fact, the only hone is use for all razors; I lap a rounded taper (a small “crest”) near the edge to better reach into the “trough” side of a warped blade… and still functions quite well with an un-warped blade.

But not to worry, with a little practice, most likely, your bevels will be even, your edge sharp, you shave happy and not a care about a warp.

P.S. Concerning “tip” of that blade: You may want to gently round it up a bit… a “spiked” round point is a bit “odd” to me… seems to defeat the purpose of a round point, additionally it gives the appearance of an edge that was bread-knifed. But once you remove steel you can’t put it back, so you may want to talk to you client first, some folks just love points like that.
2011-09-26 19:31
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justalex
Posts: 80
iconQuote:
P.S. Concerning “tip” of that blade: You may want to gently round it up a bit… a “spiked” round point is a bit “odd” to me… seems to defeat the purpose of a round point, additionally it gives the appearance of an edge that was bread-knifed. But once you remove steel you can’t put it back, so you may want to talk to you client first, some folks just love points like that.


I think its a bit nuts having a clawhammer tooth at the tip of a rounded razor, it seems crazy. I've already spoken to him and he seems fine with me rounding it off a bit. commercialism seems to break everything, who needs it...

cheers Alex
2011-09-27 11:21